320. Brett Dickinson: How to Land, Market, and Sell a Masterpiece Property (round 2)

Brett Dickinson | How to Land, Market, and Sell a Masterpiece Property (Round 2)

The #1 Real Estate Agent in La Jolla
Brett has broken multiple sales records, including the two largest residential deals ever recorded in La Jolla’s history — one in the Shores and the other in the Country Club — as well as the highest sales ever on the waterfronts of Bird Rock and Point Loma. 

In his first conversation — episode 210, How to Break Records in Your Business — Jere and Brett talked about how to break “formerly undefiable price records.” 

In this episode, he’s sharing not just how he wins a masterpiece listing, but how he lands the opportunity, markets the property, and closes the transaction. 

If you’ve ever wanted a raw look behind the curtain at how the biggest listings are won — against the fiercest competitors — this is the episode.


🎧 Listen in for insights on:
• How to compete and win luxury listings—against the fiercest competitors
• The role of time and timing in high-stakes negotiations
• Marketing is not just a checklist
• Why pricing is a marketing tool, not just valuation
• How Brett landed more articles for his listing than Marilyn Monroe's home
• The gatekeeper
• Identifying and qualifying buyers
• The mindset shift from commission-driven to client-driven service

🔑 Top Takeaways
• “Play a winning game.” Don't just show up—study the competition, set the table, and deliver better.
• Gatekeepers matter more than titles. They shape who gets in the room and what happens next.
• Don’t chase comps—create context. Brett convinces buyers by shaping the story, not citing price per foot.
• Defend your value. Discounting your commission tells the client you don’t believe in your worth.
• Strategic timing wins deals. The right message delivered at the right moment can be the deciding factor.
• Marketing isn’t optional—it’s the investment. Custom branding, PR strategy, and storytelling made Sandcastle iconic.
• Integrity creates long-term wins. A lost deal due to honesty led to future loyalty and new clients.
• You don’t have to be famous—just to the right people. Brett’s wife helped him understand the power of positioning.


🎙️ Sound Bites
“I got him a big bottle of ‘Shut the F*** Up’—because knowing when to stop talking is a power move.”
“It's not about playing the commission game. That’s the wrong game.”
“Set the table.”
“You never know what a buyer or seller is going to do—until they do.”
“You want to be very famous to a small group of people.”
“People don’t buy square footage.”
“Enjoy the journey”


📖 Books and authors mentioned

Positioning by Al Ries and Jack Trout

Good to Great by Jim Collins

Blink by Malcolm Gladwell

Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman

Pitch Anything by Oren Klaff

Also mentioned
Lex Fridman Podcast #399
Jared Kushner: Israel, Palestine, Hamas, Gaza, Iran, and the Middle East 

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JereMetcalfPodcast.com
Where top real estate agents well how they do it.

This podcast is where real estate agents across the country to come together sharing ideas to take your there and our business to the next level.

► YouTube Channel: YouTube.com/c/JereMetcalfPodcast

Chapters

• 1:26 From Tennis Pro to Top Agent
• 3:40 Tennis Strategy Meets Real Estate Strategy
• 6:24 Pricing and Marketing
• 8:12 The Pricing Conversation at the Listing Appointment
• 9:51 Case Study: The Sandcastle Listing ($108M)
• 12:27 Never Underestimate the Gatekeeper
• 14:25 Competing Against the Best: The Listing Interview Breakdown
• 17:38 PR Wins 225 Free Organic Articles... 2x Marily Monroe’s home
• 18:12 The Power of a Strong Partnership
• 21:04 Handling Multiple Interviews and Commission Conversations
• 24:46 Play the Winning Game
• 25:28 ‘Setting the Table’ to Win
• 26:19 Relatability and Holding the Frame
• 30:01 Time and Timing
• 33:40 Custom Branding & PR Strategy for Listings
• 35:33 Pricing as a Marketing Tool
• 35:51 Strategic Marketing Isn’t Just for $100M Listings
• 37:06 Identifying and Qualifying Buyers
• 40:30 Keeping Perspective and Enjoying the Journey
• 43:47 Looking Out for Clients
• 46:40 Navigating Emotions from Breaking to Making the Deal
• 48:37 Brett’s Greatest Resource for Success
• 50:56 Books that shifted Brett’s understanding of selling real estate
• 52:21 If You Remember One Thing...

Transcript

Jere Metcalf: (00:07.096)

But what I love is you're going to bring in a whole different angle and a whole different approach and you've got a track record. so everybody who's not watched Brett on the show yet, you started out like so like stereotypical tennis pro.

Brett Dickinson (00:31.702)

I started out actually, I got my best compliment the other day. I was at one of our big real estate meetings here in La Jolla and I started out 15 years ago, 2008 or so, probably not 15. I was doing short sales and foreclosures for $200,000 and I was writing, I don't know, five to 10 offers a day trying to get properties for clients. And I'd been a professional tennis player for 18 years. I taught tennis for about 10 years.

And then I'm like, I got to get off the court. got to get into something where my skillset, my life skillset would have some impact in the business I was doing. And real estate was a really good fit. But what's interesting is I was walking into this meeting and this guy goes to me and he goes, you he goes, you came in at this tennis pro, you were in shorts and you were in Tommy Bahamas. And he said, now you just signed $108 million listing. mean, you just really blew everybody away. Nobody really thought.

you would end up where you are, which is funny because.

Brett Dickinson (01:38.99)

I always had big goals on my wall. I would always put on the wall when I was doing 5 million, I would put up there 100 million. How do I get, and I was doing up 5, 25, struggling, not struggling, but working my way through, but I always had lofty goals. I didn't reach them, but I think it keeps pressing you forward is why I like them. But then eventually I reached them all, but I like that pushing forward.

trying to reach for the stars a little bit, drive. You know, that's a cool thing. But anyway, was the greatest album ever.

played, I played about 150 in the world and singles and about 90 in doubles. played all the slams and then played a 35s and 40s. I won nine national titles. So I was a very competitive, high level tennis player. So.

Jere Metcalf: (02:37.07)

When you think about tennis and being a real estate agent are not the same and they, you know, most people go from tennis pro to real estate agent, it doesn't really pan out. That's the typical story. Your competitiveness and drive to win in tennis, I mean, clearly you had a natural born talent. Do you think there's anything about the mindset and even the way you play a tennis game that transfers into the mindset or maybe even the way you sell real estate?

Brett Dickinson (03:12.588)

Yeah, I think, I think there's no question. And, and it actually goes back to when I, when I played tennis, I always said, Hey, I want to play a winning game. That's one thing we also explained to clients about the sale of their home. want to set ourselves up for success. So I have a friend of mine, I was talking to him about his listing and he was working with an agent and he was talking about, you know, Hey, this, Hey, that I said, why

Why are you playing a B game and why are you playing to lose? And he's like, what are you talking about? I'm not playing to lose. go, look, I said, you, you're working with an agent who's never sold a property in this price point. And I'm not saying they can't. said, but I mean, look at your pictures, look at the marketing, look at what you're presenting to the world. said, when you play a tennis match, you walk on the court and go, well, you know, if I'm not playing well, I'm going to use my B game, C game, the E game. said, you don't play, you don't live like that.

What you do is you put everything in your favor. So that would be one thing. I'd say the second thing is people ask me all the time, like, you know, how do you, how did you do it? Kind of a thing. It's very, very hard to break into a new market in real estate and unseat the incumbent. It's one of the most difficult things. If you look at all the markets all over the world where somebody has a stronghold, unless they retire, they age out. They keep doing deals as long as they keep the pedal.

to the metal. And so I think one of the biggest things is I tell people, solve your next problem. So, you know, I was doing short sales for closures. was still teaching 20 hours a week and going to college at the time I went back to college. So was going to night school, doing short sales in the morning and teaching tennis 30, 20, 30 hours a week. When I get like what, what was I 40 years of age? So anyway, so I did all that. Then what happened was I couldn't get any of the high end listings.

And so I went and I joined Sotheby's because it gave me an opportunity to have a brand behind me. So that was the first, you know, first problem. was an up and coming company. didn't, it didn't hurt that my wife was a Wharton graduate and a business brand and marketing expert. She had done startups all over the, all over the world and she was at Anderson Consulting. So that

Brett Dickinson (05:34.99)

helped, I met her about 15 years ago and we got married about a year and a half ago. That's a funny story on a side note for a personal thing. Anyway, yeah, we got married. It was 50 people in our backyard and it was fabulous. long and the short of it is, so then I would get the listing and I'd get all these high end listings. remember I had like 10 very high end listings all over priced and I couldn't sell them.

And the advice you get from your brokerage is generally price reduction, price reduction, price reduction. And I'm like,

I couldn't take it. said, I'm not going back to my client. And people would say, well, don't take the listing. I don't agree with that either. You have to take the listing. Number one, you're starting from nothing. You have to take the listing so that you have something to talk. I built my whole career from one listing, an $8 million listing. was able to land and I just marketed it, sold it, talked about it. And then you get two and then you get three. But my point is I step back and I said, how

I looked at the country, I looked at Hong Kong, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Manhattan beach, and I started studying what happened to pricing and how they were getting such high prices for their properties. And what I realized is that people don't buy homes. They buy, first they buy a community, then they buy a neighborhood, then they buy a house. So I started selling completely differently from that moment on. I started to

really focus on telling the story around the property and convincing people of the value of the property. And then when I talk to clients now, when we meet with them, I say, they say, well, what do you think my home is worth? I said, well, I'm not the buyer for your home. I said, the first thing I do is I say, look, when I look at your home and my business partner, Ross Clark, we partnered four years ago.

Brett Dickinson (07:30.946)

And we were each doing about a hundred million in sales. And since that time, we're now the number one team in San Diego. did 411 million in sales last year and have that did the two highest price sales at 35 million together. But I say to the client, look,

I'm looking at your property to see what I believe or we believe we can convince somebody to pay for your home. I said, I'm not buying your house. I'm not doing appraisals for your home. What I need to understand is what is going to motivate them to pay your number. And I, and I very often don't even bring comps because people know so many things about properties that very often I said, what's your price goal? Cause they all, everyone has a price goal before you walk into a meeting.

They're just deciding if you can reach their goal or not. Are you going to do what it takes? Do you believe in the sale of their home? And so I try to get that number from the seller because the seller very often they've already decided what they want to make or what they think they can, they can sell the property for. They give me their number and I say, look, let me think about that overnight. And then I'll get back to you and let you know if we can achieve that goal together.

Cause I don't like to be hired. We're not hired really. We're a very small percentage partnership in the sale of their home. And if we can achieve the goal of selling the home, we get paid. We get a piece of that deal. So I'm investing in their home. Our marketing is very intense and expensive for the first four to four to five months. So that also gives us an opportunity to get a longer listing.

Jere Metcalf: (10:03.694)

Let's walk through because we talked about before this on this interview. I just don't want to miss any of these good stories in the meantime. Like how do you land market and sell a masterpiece property? And I think you have a specific recent sale that really like pulled this whole because you gave me you've given me a long checklist but we want to keep the authentic stuff coming from yourself.

Brett Dickinson (10:36.758)

Yeah, this entire strategy and approach is what we've taken with landing, listing, marketing, the listing, and then we haven't sold it yet, but I think we have a really good chance in the next couple of weeks of the sand castle. many, people have seen the sand castle, but it's really interesting the way that all went down. so the sand castle is a, yeah, the sand castle is a

I'll just give you the specs on it. It's a 13,000 square foot spectacular home that was built in 2015. Our client bought it in 2009. It's 0.87 acres on the waterfront in La Jolla adjacent to the beach and tennis club. Some of the value, the real value of this property is 163 foot seawall that has beach access and its own private beach on the property. if you've sold waterfront, especially in California,

A seawall that was built in 1955, which is prior to the 1976 Coastal Act, is incredibly valuable because in California, if you're on the coast, if your wall was built after 1976, California Coastal Commission doesn't let you build one or maintain your own wall. So they're kind of of the disposition that if you have a seawall and it was built after 1976, if it starts to

The lapidate starts to crumble. It's really hard to get a permit to fix it. So anything built before 1955, I mean, before 1976, has incredible value. Private beach access is another thing that you're not allowed to do in California anymore because they want the beaches for the public. That's the disposition. And there's a natural erosion of the cliff, which preserves the beaches. So there is an argument for the preservation of the beaches. So this property sits up and it's just spectacular.

When we were interviewing for the property, we were competing against all the agents from LA. I mean, I think we were like the Altmans, the Oppenheim, and then we had, you know, and they can feature it. They can do so much.

Jere Metcalf: (12:49.38)

So we're talking about the sandcastle. By the way, whistle us, Price.

Brett Dickinson (12:57.71)

108 million.

And then you were competing with, by the way, you're the number one guy, so you're kind of a huge name too, but you're competing with these big, big kind of celebrity names. But also, let's talk about how you even landed, because I think the first part too is like, how did you land the opportunity? And if we're not you, we're not number one yet, how do we land the opportunity?

Brett Dickinson (13:29.538)

Yeah. So, so a deal like this, people, go to sell these properties, they interview four or five, they're going to interview the strongest teams. So for a deal like this, it's hard to get an interview on this unless you, you know, know the seller or something like that, know the gatekeeper and that kind of thing. what happened on this property is these guys were going to market and they had, a relationship through.

some of my other brokerages and also through Compass in other cities. And those relationships I would call the gatekeeper knew multiple agents in this area. there were a couple other, you know, cause they interviewed like Sotheby's, interviewed Compass, they interviewed, you know, obviously those guys.

Brett Dickinson (14:23.136)

And so they want to hear what the, what each individual brokerage has to offer along with their, their top agent. And where are the number one guys in La Jolla for like three years running.

Don't underestimate the gatekeeper. You said that like five times, just everybody hear that. Don't underestimate the gatekeeper. So you gatekeepers, internet connections, not just in your market, but across the country and the world, all of that combined gets you the opportunity to be in front of these people. then, so now we're in front of them.

Right. But I, would even reiterate one more time, Jere, it's all about the gatekeeper because the gatekeeper is going to give you information and, and let you know what people are thinking. It helps you understand what to do, what information is needed, what people are thinking. And that relationship in all of these high end listings is the most important relationship you'll have.

Jere Metcalf: (15:35.852)

You better know the gatekeeper and they better love you.

Brett Dickinson (15:43.255)

So true.

Jere Metcalf: (15:49.95)

Use all your assets, yours and your brokerages. Remember it's luxury, remember PR and the power of it.

Jere Metcalf: (15:58.446)

and

Jere Metcalf: (16:06.38)

listing presentation and handling the multiple interviews.

Jere Metcalf: (16:21.944)

So give us the story, do we want to give us the story of the sand castle or what's the story we want to hear to understand just landing it?

Yeah. I mean, let's give a quick rundown on the San Cal. So, cause it was really, really intense to get the listing and just in terms of the interview process. So, you everyone goes, you knew so-and-so. So you got the listing. I'm like, yeah, I knew so-and-so I got the listing, but I had to do all these present. was on a zoom like this and there are five people at a conference table, including the seller and you're getting grilled.

for like an hour, and you're doing your whole presentation and then you have to explain, and you have to have in your mind. going back to tennis, when I played competitive tennis and I was trying to win the national 35s, there were four or five guys that I had to really figure out how to beat. So I would go watch them play other matches and I would figure out how to beat them. And then once I understood how to beat them, I'd go home and I'd train.

on the scenarios that I had to be able to play in order to beat them. So when I got into real estate, one of the very first things I did was I couldn't get the high end listings. had a friend of mine interview with the four top agents and I got copies of all of their listing packages. And I said, I laid them out on a table and I said, I got to come up with a listing presentation that's better than all of their listing presentations. I was doing 10 million and they were doing a hundred million each, you know, like it was a joke, but.

because I had all the marketing materials of my brokerage. didn't sell me. I sold the brokerage because I wasn't successful yet. So you've got to always look at what your asset is. It's like, you know, in tennis, if you, yeah, you've got to play a winning game. So I didn't go into the meeting thinking, Hey, all these guys are great. I looked at everything they had. I saw all their weaknesses in my presentation. When I knew who I was going up against, leaned in on their presentation on what was weak about their presentation.

Brett Dickinson (18:28.93)

And then I've just adapted that every year since then. So when I went in on this meeting, I already knew we were up against the guys from LA. We were up against Sotheby's. I was at Sotheby's for years. So I know, I study what everyone else does. So I know how to beat them. And so then when I went into this meeting, I know they're listening. I know what they did. I know how they do it. I was able to like, you know, the whole brokerage thing because Sotheby's is a

What's it called? A franchise model. I'm like, yeah, well, Compass is far superior in this. I know that Sotheby's pitches the international thing. Like, we have these related. You have to go through all of this. And then we also have a PR company at Compass that nobody else has a PR company within our company. And also our superpower is our dedicated marketing person. So we sold the marketing person and we said, look, here's how we're going to shoot it. Here's the story we're going to tell.

you know, here's what we're going to do. And it was so much better than everybody else's that then when we did go to market, this is the most incredible thing is it was like the font, the colors, the pictures, everything was scrutinized. We got 5 billion impressions on that property. So it was a marketing, huge marketing success. And we got 225 organic articles free.

125 organic articles.

Brett Dickinson (19:57.806)

Yes. They've never had the, they had a, uh, uh, one of the biggest successes, marketing successes, not sales successes, marketing successes was a house that Marilyn Monroe had lived in. got 110 organic articles. We got 225 organic articles from our homes.

Jere Metcalf: (20:25.006)

Play a winning game. Use what you've got in your favor.

Brett Dickinson (20:31.468)

Yeah. And my business partner was is an incredible, energetic, bright.

person who's great in interviews. When he and I are in interviews, I think we get 95 % of the listings we go on together. And when we're in the meeting, if he starts to run with something, I just stay out of the way. And I think the big problem that a lot of agents have is they want to talk. They want to be the one. And you've got to know when you have a partner and it's very hard. Like I found the most successful teams in the country usually have two strong agents.

The most successful teams, a lot of them will have, you you'll have different models of real estate, but if you can partner with somebody that's egoless in terms of the success and doesn't like, if I bring a deal or I'm connecting with the client, he just lays back, even though he has a huge, strong personality. I do the same thing with him. So we go back and forth with each other and we have similar type personalities because he's a triathlete and he's a

always come, we're very competitive, but by the same token, we don't compete with each other. You say that's really hugely important. So that power.

Brett Dickinson (21:57.238)

Yeah, that power of our ability to play off each other. And like I'll be in, in the meeting and the guy will ask me, kind of look at me and ask me a question. I'll go and I'll say, Hey Ross, do you think, can you take that one? And then, cause I know he knows it better than I do. Or if we start to talk about the data or the marketing, I know that cause I'm, I'm doing it all day long. I'm doing the numbers and all that. He'll say, Hey Brett, why don't you tell them a little bit about the data.

And then I'll go into the whole data pitch, you know, or marketing a neighborhood or, know what I mean? So we lean on each other's strengths and we never, we never have a conflict.

The goal is the business of the client experience. goal is not to serve your ego.

Yes.

And then I have certain agents, newer agents I start to work with and, we'll be in a meeting and I'm kind of running it. have a lot more experiences than that. they just like, okay, we're ready. And then they'll keep talking. And I'm like, when somebody says they're going to sign a listing, just shut up.

Brett Dickinson (23:11.192)

So I got him this bottle. I got him this bottle. This is a really funny story. And I wrote on it, shut the F up. And I said, here's for our next meeting. I got you a big giant bottle of shut the fuck up.

If he laughed, he's in. If he didn't laugh, he's out.

He's one of my best friends. He was cracking me up. He goes I know I know I know

Jere Metcalf: (23:40.64)

One more thing about landing the listing is, know, find the gatekeeper, knowing your competition, using all your assets, using your brokerage and knowing how to use what you've got and use what you don't have to replace that. But also you said handling the multiple interviews. What do mean by that?

Brett Dickinson (24:02.894)

Right. Well, so what happens is it's, it's like, it's, it's kind of like a job interview or who's going to do the best for us. So you go to the first interview and there were, there were like six teams, right. And we met, we talked to them, we walked the property, like the guy from Sotheby's was remarkable. He did a video book that he presented to them. Hey, I did a video of your property. Right. So it's like,

It's competitive out there. You know, these other guys are like, Hey, we're going to feature your property on the show. No one has a better network than we do this and that. So we went through a whole presentation and so that's a lot of competition. what we are, so then you go through it and they go, Hey, call the gatekeeper a day after all the interviews. And I go, well, how do we do it? How did we do? He says, well, they're thinking this while they're thinking that.

You guys are, you know, the top two, right? And so the next thing that starts to happen is, is, okay, let's now we've seen what you're all about. Let's very precisely look at your plan for the sale of the home. So now you've got to do the next interview where you say, Hey, here's how we're going to market it. Here's what we're going to do. Here's our vision for the property. And you've got to know who you're, if you don't know who you're up against, you can't skew your presentation to outwit them.

Right. And one of the things that some of the agents did in this is, it was a  to the bottom on the commissions. So, you know, the sand castle, they were very generous. They were offering us a good percent. I'll just be honest to the listing agents, to the buyer's agents. I mean, that's huge for that type of property. And it's, should be known that they, they, you know, they want to bring in the best people. And then some of the other companies were like,

dropping their commission and that actually served in our favor because we said, look, anyone that's willing to drop the commission on a property like this, that means they're only concerned about the commission. said, our goal is not the commission. Our goal is to get you your number. If you don't get your number and you're unhappy with the job we did, let's have a conversation then about.

Brett Dickinson (26:19.414)

what we've invested in the property and what our value is. But right now you can't go into a deal saying I'm not worth this. I mean, you can't do that. And you have to also. Yeah. And why would you do it for free? That means you don't care that much about the cell. You're not willing to invest as much money in it, time and energy. And I'm like, and then I would say, I would ask the question, go, Jere, do you, do you work for free? Do you like to work for free? You like to work for nothing? What's going to drive you?

to get the sale done. It's not just about the money, but by the same token, it's not fair. And so it actually worked in our favor. And we were able to defend our commission and the commission to the buyer's agent. They want to reduce the commission. go, let's say you have so-and-so. And I said, you have five buyers for this property in the world. And you have agents in Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York.

Then if you say, Hey, we're going to not offer you such, they're not even going to bring their buyer. I go, so you're willing to miss out on an opportunity for that one buyer for this particular property because you're worried about this, which is in the amount of commission. It's a line item for clients in this category. So you always got to look at your listener and you've got to say it doesn't the strategically the other agents are making a mistake with that pitch.

Jere Metcalf: (27:54.828)

When you start competing on that, it's just, you're, it's a race to the bottom. You're also losing, like you're not representing the client now. I mean, like you just put yourself out of the contest.

Yeah.

Brett Dickinson (28:08.428)

Yeah. And you're, it's, I just, I told him, said, this is the wrong game. We're not playing the right game here. We got to play a game we can win at. We got to set us up for getting through this, but you don't like if, if I'm, if I'm working on a property, I think we were talking earlier about selling a contemporary home. I want to play the game that we can win at. I'm not going to play the neighborhood game on that because the houses around it aren't that great. So we're not even going to talk about that.

We're going to talk about something else.

Jere Metcalf: (28:46.424)

You guys so many great one liners. Line item, it's just a line item. And then this is the wrong game. Let's play the winning game.

Brett Dickinson (29:00.226)

Yeah. Let's set ourselves up for success. Yeah. And I know I keep saying winning. I'm not so obsessed with winning. I just like to set the table. call it.

Brett Dickinson (29:21.208)

So if we're gonna, before we ever show a home or before we meet with a client, we like to set the table so that we're gonna have a nice meal, a nice event. And if we set the table right, like we have beautiful listing presentation, we know the market, we've done our homework, we know the seller, we know what everyone's thinking, then we don't need to overly be concerned with the interaction.

I mean, think about it. If you invite 10 people over for dinner and you set a gorgeous table, how often does everybody have a great time? We have the foods, the wines good. Yeah. And you don't need to overly think it. You see what I'm saying? You're ready. Then you interact with client.

It makes sure it's not forced. The worst thing is when you're forcing something.

Brett Dickinson (30:17.646)

Correct.

Brett Dickinson (30:25.24)

They want to relate with you. They want it. You have to be relatable with people. know, you're, you're, you're the more time you're on the phone with them, the more time you're interviewed with them, you know, like Ross and I will make fun of each other in the meeting. You know, like Ross works out a lot and, and he's like, he's incredibly fit. have a lot of respect for that because I used to be incredibly fit, but I, I, I fell and I, I hurt my labrum. And so in the meeting.

I'll be like, yeah, I hurt my leg room a little bit. And I said, I have a funny story. You're like, you know, 12 weeks ago, I looked like that. Then I my shoulder. You know, nevermind starts laughing. Like, you know, like, it's like, you've got to be able to also be relatable, funny. mean, we'll talk about cars. We talk about like we did a Ferrari event. So people start to like you, you know, they want to work with

Jere Metcalf: (31:31.148)

I don't know if you're familiar with Lex Friedman's podcast.

Jere Metcalf: (31:48.798)

In his interview, it's the interview he had with Jere Kushner and it was 12 hours after the attack in Israel. And it was about that, but he was also talking about the relations in Middle East. But here's the point. is like, what are we talking about politics or wars now? No. Yes, but no. He talked about the relations between all the leaders of the Middle Eastern countries. And here's what was interesting. He said, the level of intimacy and humor and connectivity.

that everyone had in the creating of the Abraham Accords. It's like everybody has this idea that we come into this appointment, we're formal, no, we're people, we're friends. And I find the tighter the circles and the more you go up here, the more tight and important the character and relationship. So in that appointment, that having a little bit of fun is all about, who are you really, what are you really about? That's a really important part of it.

Brett Dickinson (32:50.99)

There's two really important things. You bring up a really important thing where you're relatable. There's another thing that happens with Ross and me that I didn't notice before until I saw it happen with Ross. Because sometimes you can't see it when you're interacting with somebody because you're in it. you know, we interact with a client and the client is over successful person, not this particular client, but, you know, to some extent these guys, because they're

They're like super highly competitive athletes as well. You know what I mean? So they work out and do the thing. But we are experts at something that we did, which was being a professional tennis player, Ross as a triathlete and a trainer and, you know, incredibly fit. a lot of times in the meeting, when we interact with the client who we're trying to, you know, get the meeting with physically, we'll be there in the room and we'll be like, and Ross will be like,

Dude, have you been working out? Like, this is how we'll start the meeting. Have you been working out? God. And he'll hit him in the stomach or he'll grab him or something. And the guy will be like, well, no, I stopped running so much or, like they play tennis or pickleball and I'm a pretty good golfer. And so all of a sudden they're humbled when they meet with us because we're, we've been an expert at what we do in a very side note. Do you see what I mean?

It all of sudden takes you from being the, I get your listing too? Hey, let's crush it together. Let's do this together, which is to your point. Right. And that changes the dynamic of the interaction where people feel like, Hey, you know, they, these guys are great at what they've done and now they're great at real estate. So.

They're a little bit more humbled and we can say a lot of things now later in our career that I could never say before. And people listen, the clients listen because we've had, we have a track record. The other thing we did was when we were trying to get the listing, it always comes down to the last couple of days. And it's really important to get a sense of what, how the decision is being made. So one thing I, I can't.

Brett Dickinson (35:14.432)

Emphasize enough is time and timing. When you do what is the hardest thing to teach anybody when you do what. And so like, if you go into the meeting with somebody and you start out talking about commissions, that's a deal killer. If somebody wants to talk about commissions, you really need to talk about the property, the idea and everything. And then you've got to find ways to get to that later. Then it's like, okay, we want price price.

And commissions, we want to see the nuts and bolts of the deal. So we did a whole valuation of the land replacement costs of the home, which was about $5,000 a square foot. And we gave them this whole analysis of why we should price the property at 108. They go, well, why don't you price it at 99 or a hundred? Because we said, we're not going to get as much marketing out of a hundred as 108. Eight also is a very lucky number for the Chinese. So we want, and they're like, everyone else was at a hundred.

Or 110 or a hundred and whatever. 95. Yeah. 99. And so we had very clear reasons for what we did. Additionally, at the very end, the day before they gave us the decision, we were texting with the gatekeeper and the decision maker. And we gave them data that proved why they should choose us because there's this illusion that, you know, these companies from LA are doing a lot of business in La Jolla.

or the guys at Sotheby's. And so we sent them all the data in a text message. Because you also have to get an understanding of how people process information at the moment they're going to make the decision. Once they make the decision, you're screwed. So you have to finesse that information. So I had a direct line to the decision maker, and I texted him. I went online. I put together this cool little graph, this little Excel thing like this big.

And I texted it to him and highlighted all of our results. And he texted me back and he said, my gosh, I didn't realize those guys hadn't sold any properties in the top 10 in La Jolla. He didn't know. He didn't know who was doing all the sales. You see what I'm saying? So that piece of information at that moment made him go, yeah, this makes sense. They're not doing any deals down here. Why, you know,

Jere Metcalf: (37:23.895)

Of course not.

Brett Dickinson (37:40.706)

They don't show their homes when they're down here. They're not here. They don't know what's happening. They don't have their finger on the pulse. So we were able to win that game. We were able to win the local game against, you know, a worldwide brand, essentially. You see what I mean?

Jere Metcalf: (38:11.672)

He reminded me a lot of, know, Orrin Clough, the book, Pitch Anything, Hold the Frame, you know, Hey buddy, you've been working out, right? And then, and then you go in and you give them the data that scares them. The thing that gets through the crack right up, that's scary. So that they process the information that they should otherwise be listening to, but they're not because the assumptions that they're living on and really summing it up, it's not just about knowing your competitors. It's about knowing your audience.

Who is the client? What are they thinking? What are they listening to? What's important to them?

Yes.

Let's talk about marketing. So you talked about, we say again, marketing's playing the winning game. Look, talking about you guys got, well, first, before I go into what you even got, use all your collateral, the photos, the videos, the branding. You had basically a brand kit for that property with its own colors, its own fonts, its own story.

Everything we did, I don't mean to interrupt, but everything we did was intentional. said, we, it's very intentional and we had a love, the level of commitment to everything we did was a high level, very intentional. The story, the words, the colors, the brand, the look, the pictures. For example, we took a picture.

Brett Dickinson (39:33.89)

And there was the tide was out. So there was no water below the seawall. So you couldn't tell it was a waterfront property. So we had to get a picture. And then when we took the picture, it's massive. And, and the guys were like, well, that just looks too big. go, it has to look enormous. You're paying a hundred million for it. It has to look gigantic.

Jere Metcalf: (39:58.318)

know your audience intentional marketing. So when you do the marketing, obviously you've got the PR behind it. You also got, you said earlier, 225 organic articles.

Brett Dickinson (40:29.89)

And that was because of how we did it. Our marketing at the marketing person that we have at Compass is she's extraordinary. I'll be honest with you. just, every, every home we've worked on with, with her, she's knocked it out of the park in terms of her relationships and then who to go to first, like when to do what, who do you go to first? Who's the person that you're or who's the media?

that's going to give you the credibility to get all the other people picking you up.

Jere Metcalf: (41:08.494)

Also, the things you did on your end, for example, I mean, is something as small as the price. Over 100 million makes the big difference for PR. The number eight in it makes a big difference for who's looking, who has money, who's going to be interested and more compelled by it as well.

Brett Dickinson (41:28.684)

Yes. So pricing is interesting because people think that pricing is evaluation and it's not, not in this regard. It's not an appraisal. you part pricing is part of your marketing.

Brett Dickinson (41:46.686)

And I think when you change that perspective to what you're trying to achieve, then it changes the whole way you think about the price of a property and the value of a property.

But to your point, I think what's really interesting, whether you're in a hundred million dollar property or even a, let's say a 500,000 or two or three million dollar property, people actually don't buy square feet. There are features that they're looking for and understanding what they're looking for helps you position a property to maximize the value because if you're just looking at prices square feet, you're gonna get a lot of the wrong audience. If you understand what the buyer's looking for,

and who's looking at it and how to showcase those features that drive price up for a buyer. That's basically how you can sell houses for a lot more money than people realize is show people that you have what they're looking for and get those, make sure those are the people in the property and looking at it, especially in these, like to everybody. This is relevant in all categories.

Brett Dickinson (42:54.094)

Yes. Pricing this strategy that we're employing here, you know, we just used it on a property that we put on at $775,000. Just so everyone understands, you know, I still, I do every price point. These are what I call the shiny toys and we have a couple of them and they get us great exposure and it's cool and people like to talk about it. But you know, they're only in La Jolla, there were two sales over 20 million last year.

Brett Dickinson (44:27.97)

When we go and meet with a client as part of the listing presentation, we go through the listing and then we get to the very end and we said, okay, you know, everyone wants to know what do think my house is worth? So we don't really answer that question because we're just trying to see what we can convince somebody to pay. And we have a two page spread on pricing. And then you go, you can price something high. you can price something kind of at what it is.

You can do bottom up pricing, which is a little bit more like action pricing. can be called, or you do value range marketing. And that way, what it does is it gets people off of when they're selling their home is I'm going to put my house on a number and here's what I'm going to get. Because think about all of your clients when they go look at a property or they're looking online, they generally have a budget of, don't know, let's just say it's

Let's say it's a hundred million.

Brett Dickinson (45:33.334)

we can do a hundred million because a hundred million is a different animal. Well, to that point,

Brett Dickinson (45:45.134)

Here's what we did for this property, just so you know, is we targeted 250 billionaires all over the world. We figured we went through their profiles, we got all the information on them, and we used a company called WealthX, which is extremely precise and helpful. I we did this in Compass, we paid for their services, and we got 250 profiles of people we thought might be interested in the property. You know, we detailed it out.

Do they collect properties? Do they like San Diego? Have they been here? You you get all this insane amount of scary information. What are their habits? Do they like art? Do they like old world? Do they, you know, have they been to Paris? Have they seen the Chateau de Versailles? You know, you get all this information and then you get the property somehow in front of them. And then they're able to look at it. Now, when somebody calls, we've had five showings on the sandcastle right now.

You know, we've had multiple calls and most people are like, you know, what do I need? You know, to, be able to look at the property. And I'm like, well, normally you'd probably just be in the Forbes 500. So it wouldn't be hard because we'd figure that someone that can buy the sandcastle has to be worth at least a billion dollars in wealth. Because if you're going to pay a hundred million for something you it's got to be not that significant of your portfolio. You know what I mean? Like it can't be.

Like, I'm worth, and I hate to say this, 300 million, I'm spending a third of my wealth on this property, or I'm going to carry it because let's say they did 50 million. mean, your carry is extraordinary on a deal like that. So you've got to be realistic with the numbers. And then if that doesn't work, then what we do is we say, have your wealth manager at JP Morgan or Merrill or, you know, one of your wealth companies, know, Schwab, just

Just write us a letter and we'll call that person. And that we don't really look at account statements. Account statements are kind of stupid only because we've had, I've had people submit fraudulent count statements to see properties.

Brett Dickinson (47:55.01)

But whereas if you have someone that anyone that has a billion dollars or a billion and a half has a wealth manager on speed dial. And if that person doesn't pick up within 10 minutes, he's fired. That's just that simple. So it's actually much easier to test and find out who your client is. I do have a funny story though. So we did these once every two week or three weeks cocktail events for 15 people on Thursdays.

to expose the house to the wealthiest group of people we have here in San Diego. So we targeted 25 billionaires that are here in town. There's more, but let's say these 25. And we would either invite them through a friend or somebody that knew them. And they never come to anything. They don't come to any of that. You you invite them all the time. They never come that, you know, they're really nice people, but they're busy. And they, so we invited these group of people along with other people.

And we got of the 45 people that we had through the property for this private cocktail, really high end wine, charcuterie platter, and that's it. It wasn't dinner. They would stay two, three hours. We got 22 out of the 25 people we targeted to walk that property.

What was the difference?

Brett Dickinson (49:18.252)

The sandcastle. Everybody wants to see the sandcastle.

Jere Metcalf: (51:29.72)

So one thing that is fun about this is doing this kind of work is incredibly, it's a big risk. It could be incredibly stressful. There's a lot of pressure. And I love something that you said, you sent me some notes and I love what you said. You said, enjoy the journey. Like throughout this, one of the undercurrent common denominators of everything you do is as competitive and relentless as you are. Like, and you wouldn't know it if I just met you in the street, but

To that, it's because you're competitive, but you're not going to not enjoy the journey.

Brett Dickinson (52:07.342)

Yeah, I think we get lost in some of the elements of our business. I think one of the things that, and I bring Ross up because Ross and I both basically adopted children. My wife had two boys from her previous marriage. I met when they were five and eight and now they're 20 and 22 and they're like,

It's like some of my best friends were just so close with them. then Ross, his first wife, you know, had a couple of kids and the, husband had passed away when the kids were 12 and, you know, 10. And so he, he adopted those kids. so I think, I think we have this sense of, know, we're selling real estate and we're working with people, but

These are real first world problems. You know what I mean? These are, we have a sensitivity to the fact that there's a lot more going on in the world in our life than, than, selling. we love, don't get me wrong. We love selling the properties. We love this game, but, you know, I've, I've been to 60 countries. I lived in five. you know, we've had a lot of world experience where

You know, I find the younger, sometimes younger agents are so caught in it, you know, especially with what they see on TV and what, what's happening. Whereas if you get right down, do it. The, lot of the people we work with, a lot of them came from nothing. A lot of them, you know, they're just tough business people or not. And, and you're doing these deals with them. You're helping them buy and sell things. And.

I think if you look at it more from that perspective, that, you know, you're really just trying to help these people to do something. And one of the things that always gave me, and I hate to use this word, a sense of confidence was when I was helping somebody buy or sell a piece of real estate, even if I was a little earlier in my career, because as you do this longer, you just don't realize how much you're learning every day. If you're working on your game, if you're improving,

Brett Dickinson (54:28.246)

and learning about, you know, development and houses and construction and sales and marketing. And then, and reading, you know, we read a lot, we all study. So I think I kind of look at it and go, John, you know, you're going to sell your home. Why wouldn't you work with me? No one's going to do a better job or work harder for the sale of your home than I will. And so that always gave me this sense of how did they make that choice? Like to not work with me.

You know, like that's kind of how I approached it. Ross is the same sort of thing. Like I'm really going to help you. you know, I had a deal fall apart, a $5 million deal. was on both sides of the deal and I had a good relationship with the seller. The buyer was newer to me, but the seller, you know, didn't disclose, you know, 330 pages that I discovered in the house the day before close Vesco.

And I sent it all to the buyer, the buyer said, yeah, I'm canceling the whole deal fell apart. Now I'm really good friends with the buyer and he bought another home and the seller was mad at me and fired me. But at the end of the day, you know, it's actually pretty simple. Tell people what you know, always disclose. And you know, sometimes it's going to hurt you financially, but you're going to be able to wake up every day and it's less stressful that way. And there'll be another deal.

there'll be another opportunity to help somebody through the process. that, that I think it doesn't mean we're not stressed out at times. Don't get me wrong. This is not hunky dory the whole way through.

Well, you seek out the opportunities, you show up for the opportunities, you compete for the opportunities. And in all of that, you don't lose perspective of what you're really doing and what it offers people and the fact that yeah, they are missing out if they don't hire you. Not to be arrogant, just to be truthful. the undercurrent of all of this is, reality of things, especially in this sector of business, has a lot of gifts to offer if we're not afraid of them, if we lean into them.

Brett Dickinson (56:37.868)

Yes. You lean in, lean in and, you know, what's really interesting is some of the clients I've worked the hardest for and made the most money for are disgruntled or unhappy. You know, it's, it's the nature of for whatever it is, it's the nature of business. It's the nature of it's never enough. people that are in these price categories. I mean, I think the greatest person to work with is a young family.

someone the first time home buyer or someone that's trying to move up and you're able to help them get through their process. They're so excited, eyes wide open. And you know, you're looking out for them the whole way through. That's some of the best clients and experience you can have as a real estate agent. Some of the other, the clients that have done more deals and things like that, it's a different experience with them.

They're fun. have a longer term relationship. You're doing multiple deals with them. It's, it's different. if a dip, it's a different animal, but I think at the end of the day, as much as it's really interesting with the people, think the fun part is the deal, putting the deal together, getting to the finish line, solving the problems, problem solving.

The problem solving is the name of the game and the creativity that comes with it. That and your competitiveness is where you just kill it.

Brett Dickinson (58:14.51)

Well, there's that there's, there's another element. I came more to realize recently in working with that I partnered with, I was mentioning Arno who's a really good friend of mine. And, you know, we, we'd get a repair request and he'd like, you know, it'd be like, I don't know, seven or eight o'clock at night. Oh, we got to call the client. And I'm like, just take a deep breath. You know, let's think about it for a minute. Text him. Hey,

Can we do a call tomorrow morning at nine? Make sure he's had the buyer, know, the sellers had his coffee. We talked to him. He goes ballistic and you know, cause the repair request was enormous, like a half a million dollar repair request on a house that was in great condition. It was the game. It was the game. The buyer was playing, which I don't fault people. That's game. That's okay. And we explained it. We said, take a deep breath. And that's like, the deal is going to fall apart. And they started to get personal and like, Hey, just go for it. Let's all go for a walk.

Let's meet up at six o'clock tonight and rethink it." So they did it. They thought about it. We ended up doing the deal. We got a $250,000 adjustment. We closed the deal. But my point is, if you press at that moment, you get nowhere. You've got to let people process. And so that's where I think time and timing, people change their mind. And one thing I always tell people all the time is you never know

what a buyer's gonna do, buyer or seller are gonna do until they do.

When someone experiences an intense emotion, if that motion isn't re-triggered by something, I have to confess, I got this from, what is the book that's so big right now? Let it, let them.

Jere Metcalf: (59:59.726)

90 seconds and it diffuses. But the other thing I love about what you just said is everybody's like, how do you do it? What's the script? What's the trick? What's the whatever? Okay, sure, some of that might be okay. What we're doing is navigating emotions and they're not that complicated when you understand time and timing.

Brett Dickinson (01:00:23.574)

Yes, correct.

Jere Metcalf: (01:00:35.246)

Final three.

Jere Metcalf: (01:01:28.481)

Number one.

Jere Metcalf: (01:01:36.332)

What has been your greatest resource for success overall? Or should we ask you, what has been your greatest resource for success in winning Masterpiece Property Listings?

Brett Dickinson (01:01:52.972)

Yeah, I think I would say it's all the people around me. I've been very, very fortunate. A lot of the guys that I taught tennis to are extremely successful real estate agents, buyers and sellers of things. My wife, cause she's a business person as well as a marketing person. And then my business partner, I've gotten, I'm a person that asks lots of questions and I want to hear everyone's perspective.

So I would say the greatest asset I have is leaning in to the people around me. And what's interesting is a lot of these people, taught their kids tennis and I know them really well. And when I had challenges in my career, I'm like, hey, what should we do? What's my next step? This and that. And they were just so helpful and insightful and gave me their time. I would say that's my greatest asset is that I was very fortunate

to have very bright, successful people that gave me their time.

Jere Metcalf: (01:03:08.454)

But a lot of people have a lot of people around them. What I love about what you said, and I think you did it in tennis, you do it in real estate, and you do it with your people, is you lean into them and you appreciate. There's that gratitude. There's leaning in, looking for the solution, and having the gratitude.

Brett Dickinson (01:03:28.014)

But it's okay to be vulnerable and to say, geez, I've got this property. I don't know what to do. Or I've got this client. You know, it's okay. You know, a lot of people never want to admit they're not, you know, you don't need to admit it online.

Jere Metcalf: (01:03:52.59)

So vulnerability, you can't be vulnerable without strength.

Brett Dickinson (01:04:02.51)

That's a good point actually. Yeah, I never thought of it that way, but that's very true.

Brett Dickinson (01:07:49.646)

I have a funny story. So I was doing these parts and this and that. then, you know, my wife, I was like, hey, you know, let me, you know, could you look at my marketing? I know you're an expert. I know we've been dating now for a couple of years, this and that. And she's like, look, she started talking to me about marketing. I marketing doesn't work. She's like, what are you talking about? I said, well, it's referrals. Everything's referrals is that she goes. Okay, she took a deep breath and she says, look, I'm going to give you four books to read.

positioning, good to great, blink.

Think fast and slow, maybe.

Brett Dickinson (01:08:30.7)

Yeah. And, and, she said, read those books and then talk to me. Yeah. Selling. And so I did, I read them all. And then I read them all and I, you know, I'm like a note taker and this and that. And then all of a sudden I'm like, okay, I get it. Cause we did marketing and all of a sudden people started to, to like know who I was before I walked in the room and how it works. And you want to be very famous to a small group of people.

That's what I tell people. So anyway.

Yeah. So anyway, so that's how the books, but one more thing is then I got into pricing and I couldn't figure out how to price. So I've always looked for books on pricing, how to price a home. There's not a book on that. I've never seen one. I've seen books on how to price products, how to price other things, pricing strategies, but no one writes books on the things that are the challenges for us. You know what I mean? It's interesting, isn't it?

Jere Metcalf: (01:09:34.488)

There's all this stuff about if it didn't work the price is too high. No, no, not like sometimes, but not always. I've taken properties. Right. It's not it's positioning. It's the story you're telling. It's knowing your audience. It's who's the buyer. It's what do people really pay for and what are they seeing when they see the property?

Jere Metcalf: (01:10:07.542)

Last question, if everybody forgets everything we've talked about and they only remember one thing, what do you hope that that is?

Brett Dickinson (01:10:26.762)

Listen to your audience. Listen. The most important thing you do when you go into a meeting is really try to listen to the person and understand where they're coming from.

Jere Metcalf: (01:11:04.586)

And listen to what they're not saying. Think about what is their currency? What is their fear? What do they really want? And they'll tell you it will come out when you listen. And that's everything.

Brett Dickinson (01:11:21.634)

Yeah. And I, I think it's really important to listen and ask questions before you comment on things. You know, I would, I would always, was always fascinated. Like, you know, I would coach children, you know, kids, you know, 12, 14, 15, and they'd be good and they'd go to a clinic with another pro and the pro would start giving them advice. And, you know, like we had just changed the kids serve and they would start giving them advice on the serve.

And I'd call the coach up and I said, you you know what, why would you give him advice on that on his serve? And I wouldn't tell him what we were working on. And he'd go, well, he was doing this wrong and that wrong. And I go, well, you know, that's part of our process. He was doing these three, these other things, and he was working on getting through that. We're not there yet. So he's like, I said, did you ask him what he was working on? No.

So my point is everybody has a process of when they're selling their home, what they're doing. It's really important to listen to the client, whether it be the buyer or the seller, and understand what's important to them, what they're trying to achieve, what drives them. know, like right now I have a dynamic where I have that property I talked about with the trees and there's three siblings and they all have different perspectives on what to do.

So you're mediating, you like, one of them was upset because, you know, she didn't get a call and you know, it's like, you've got to, you've got to really listen to your client.

Jere Metcalf: (01:13:02.144)

It goes back again to the beginning of the conversation. It's about, it's when you're listening, listening beneath the surface and asking the questions beyond the obvious.

Brett Dickinson (01:13:16.376)

Yeah, I think that's a really, really good. Yeah. Yeah.

Brett Dickinson (01:13:30.38)

Yeah, it's really fun, but I would say you have gotten very good.

You ask all the right questions. You keep us on track. You. So I just want to say how I remember you when you were selling houses back in the day. I just want to thank you on how easy you are to talk to and, but you yet you keep us on track. So I think you're doing a really good job of this. I'm very proud of you. So keep up the good work.

Brett Dickinson (01:14:08.534)

I'm trying to see at Inman, I think I'm going to go, but I'm trying to see at Inman if they want to do something like this, where we're talking about marketing and selling a masterpiece.

Brett Dickinson (01:14:34.478)

Yeah, if you want to bring it up, I sent him an email.